15:00:13 <rbergeron> #startmeeting oVirt weekly sync meeting
15:00:13 <ovirtbot> Meeting started Wed Nov 16 15:00:13 2011 UTC.  The chair is rbergeron. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:13 <ovirtbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:21 <rbergeron> #meetingname oVirt Weekly sync meeting
15:00:21 <ovirtbot> The meeting name has been set to 'ovirt_weekly_sync_meeting'
15:00:29 <rbergeron> #chair pmyers cctrieloff quaid
15:00:29 <ovirtbot> Current chairs: cctrieloff pmyers quaid rbergeron
15:00:33 * rbergeron looks to pass around chair-age
15:00:48 <rbergeron> #chair aliguori mdday_
15:00:48 <ovirtbot> Current chairs: aliguori cctrieloff mdday_ pmyers quaid rbergeron
15:01:07 <pmyers> rbergeron: hm, that means I need to pay attention doesn't it?
15:01:09 <rbergeron> #topic Gathering people... who's here?
15:01:17 <rharper> rbergeron: here
15:01:31 <rbergeron> pmyers: well, it's IRC, so, I think we all expect a certain degree of multi-tasking here ;)
15:01:35 <pmyers> :)
15:01:35 <rbergeron> hey ryan.
15:01:36 * mburns lurking
15:01:39 <mestery> rbergeron: here
15:01:53 <smoser`> rbergeron, here
15:01:59 * mdday_ present
15:02:02 * mestery almost said "hero" instead of here ...
15:02:07 * smoser is still here as 'smoser'
15:02:17 <jimjag> here
15:02:22 <dannf> here
15:02:23 <cctrieloff> here
15:02:26 <bazulay> here
15:02:45 <MarkBaker> here
15:02:53 <rbergeron> #info pmyers, rharper, mburns, mestery, mdday_, smoser, rbergeron, jimjag, dannf, cctrieloff, bazulay, MarkBaker present
15:03:06 <rbergeron> coolio. If anyone else shows up, meetbot will usually log people who said things at the bottom of the meeting notes.
15:03:15 <rbergeron> Moving onwards!
15:03:17 <rbergeron> #topic Agenda
15:03:20 <gargya> present
15:03:42 * quaid is here
15:03:43 <rbergeron> I had a few things on the agenda for today - (1) press release status, board vs. project-planning mailing lists, upcoming event planning
15:03:51 * aliguori is here
15:03:53 <cctrieloff> rbergeron: shall we gather topic for the meeting and then work them.
15:03:53 <rbergeron> and last but not least, moving towards first release
15:04:02 <rbergeron> If anyone else has something, speak now :)
15:04:03 <cctrieloff> I would also like to add:
15:04:13 * sgordon here
15:04:13 <rbergeron> #info gargya, aliguori, quaid are also present and awesome.
15:04:24 <cctrieloff> 1.) do we open the list up to non subscription posts
15:04:55 <cctrieloff> 2.) ftp / repo setup, want to get that done so we can get it up this week
15:04:57 <rbergeron> #info Topics for today include: press release status, board vs. project-planning mailing lists, upcoming event planning, moving towards first release, opening up mailing list to non-subcriber posts
15:05:15 <rbergeron> #info Topics also include: ftp / repo setup status & progress
15:05:28 <rbergeron> #info sgordon also present
15:05:30 <cctrieloff> 3.) We need feedback on release date, from SUSE and Canonical
15:05:47 <cctrieloff> we agreed that we would work the release date around the 16th.
15:05:54 <rbergeron> #info Topics also include: Feedback on release date from SUSE and Canonical - around 16th.
15:05:57 <cctrieloff> any other topics?
15:06:11 <mdday_> we expedited IBM's review of the press release and now the PR staff is wondering what's holding further review up
15:06:22 * aglitke is here
15:06:27 <rbergeron> Doesn't look like it, but feel free to yelp at the end if you have another topic.
15:06:32 <rbergeron> #topic Press release status
15:06:55 <rbergeron> cctrieloff: do we know where this is at? Last week, we were still waiting on a few people, but i haven't heard any updates.
15:06:59 <cctrieloff> on the PR side, I believe we have them all except cisco/intel from my last update which was yesterday
15:07:19 <rbergeron> #info Have all PR signoffs except Cisco / Intel (as of yesterday)
15:07:33 <rbergeron> cctrieloff: Do we need people from those companies to continue poking their PR reps?
15:07:50 * rbergeron eyes mestery ;)
15:07:56 <cctrieloff> mestery: do you know where we are from your side?
15:08:29 <mdday_> rbergeron: IBM had some minor edits - did you see those, and are the good?
15:09:01 <cctrieloff> mdday_: yes all looked good, SUSE also picked out on a few good edits.
15:09:11 <rbergeron> mdday_: I'm not actually in the loop on those edits (unless you sent them directly to me and I missed them, which has been known to happen occasionally) :) but it looks like Carl saw them.
15:09:23 <cctrieloff> kerri has taken all the edits and has sent back out to all the PR orgs.
15:09:26 <mdday_> cctrieloff, rbergeron, thanks
15:09:35 <rharper> rbergeron: will there be a final draft released to all ?
15:09:41 <rbergeron> #info Both IBM and SUSE provided minor edits, which Kerri has taken into account and submitted back to the PR orgs.
15:09:43 <rharper> rbergeron: with the latest edits?
15:10:10 <cctrieloff> edits where basically turning it from a multi company release to a project release, which is good for optics but will have a little less coverage on the wire
15:10:17 <rbergeron> rharper: would you be interested in asking a mail on-list about that? Kerri shoudl be able to answer that, and I think it's a good idea.
15:10:22 <rbergeron> :D
15:10:26 <rharper> rbergeron: sure
15:10:28 <rbergeron> but she's not here at the moment
15:10:39 <rbergeron> rharper: awesome. (plus, I can use the power of action here, so people can see how to use it)
15:10:56 <rbergeron> #action rharper to ask on-list about the prospects of sending out a final draft of the press release to everyone.
15:10:59 <rbergeron> :)
15:11:29 <cctrieloff> just got next action from cisco, I'll follow up.
15:11:43 <rbergeron> #action cctrieloff has next action from cisco, and will follow up re: press release
15:11:50 <rbergeron> cctrieloff: do you want to follow up with Intel as well?
15:12:08 * rbergeron looks through the list of attendees for intel folks
15:12:08 <cctrieloff> Kerri has that one under control I believe. I'll check with her.
15:12:18 <rbergeron> #action cctrieloff to follow up with kerri on intel status
15:12:23 <rbergeron> okay. I think that wraps that one up.
15:12:31 <rbergeron> #topic Board vs. Project-planning list
15:12:38 <rbergeron> Okay, so this is my personal question, I suppose:
15:12:53 <rbergeron> Do we want to continue sending meeting notices to project-planning, or are we largely switching over to the board list?
15:13:04 <rbergeron> Since we're more or less off the ground here.
15:13:06 <pmyers> I think board list should just obsolete project-planning
15:13:08 * rbergeron seeks feedback
15:13:14 <cctrieloff> kwade: is everyone from planning on teh board list?
15:13:27 <cctrieloff> quaid: ^^
15:13:32 <quaid> pmyers: as long as we can move the subjects that are not board@ to e.g. arch@
15:13:37 <pmyers> ack
15:13:51 <rbergeron> anyone else? I'm +1 to that.
15:13:58 <quaid> cctrieloff: I presume so but it would take a brief manual check
15:14:03 <cctrieloff> where do we want to coordinate events etc, on board list?
15:14:16 <rbergeron> cctrieloff: maybe even an events or marketing list would make sense for that?
15:14:23 <pmyers> not YAML :)
15:14:25 <quaid> cctrieloff: exactly, is that board@ or really arch@?
15:14:26 <rbergeron> With weekly report-out to the board?
15:14:31 <pmyers> how about we just do it on users@ or smth
15:14:45 <cctrieloff> doing on users is a great idea.
15:14:48 <rbergeron> Okay.
15:14:55 <quaid> as long as the users don't mind :)
15:14:59 <mestery> +1 to users
15:15:01 <quaid> well, not here to object!
15:15:04 <rbergeron> #agreed board list obsoletes project-planning list for meeting invites, etc.
15:15:07 <cctrieloff> let's do that and sunset the planning list
15:15:16 <rbergeron> #agreed event coordination to go to users@ list.
15:15:23 <rbergeron> #agreed sunset the planning list
15:15:35 <rbergeron> #action quaid to verify that all users on project-planning are on board@ list.
15:15:38 <rbergeron> Kosher?
15:15:42 * rbergeron looks around for anything she missed
15:15:55 <quaid> #info Sunset means - block new subs but leave archives etc. up
15:16:03 <rbergeron> 3, 2, 1 ....
15:16:08 <rbergeron> quaid: thanks for the clarification :)
15:16:20 <rbergeron> #topic Upcoming Event Planning
15:16:32 <rbergeron> A few notes here -
15:16:50 <rbergeron> #info chris wright noted on-list that FOSDEM has a track for cloud/virt-ish things, that may be an option.
15:16:53 <Yih> I failed to authenticate to a running guestOS through VNC, though set the password by setVmTicket rdsClient command.  Any thing I may have missed?
15:17:20 * rbergeron will be honest and say she's been sort of out of the loop for the past week on the events-planning-list stuff with Fedora release, but is getting caught up, so looking for any input here or anything people wnat to urgently point out
15:17:42 <cctrieloff> I think FOSDEM is one we should plan to put some energy into
15:17:45 <rbergeron> #info SCALE CFP closes tomorrow, if anyone wants to present in SoCal in January.
15:17:56 <pmyers> cctrieloff: apevec will be attending, so he can give preso on oVirt Node if need be
15:17:58 <rbergeron> cctrieloff: I agree, it's a huge conference
15:18:05 <pmyers> apevec: you get to do double duty if you go to FOSDEM!
15:18:28 <cctrieloff> pmyers: can you ask him to submit something. I can help arm him with material if needed
15:18:42 <quaid> #action quaid can submit The General oVirt Talk to SCALE if no one else is going
15:18:43 <pmyers> cctrieloff: you just asked him, he's on channel ;)
15:18:54 <quaid> meaning, i have other things to submit, but will also do this one if no one else can
15:18:56 <cctrieloff> pmyers: :-)
15:19:19 <cctrieloff> quaid: thanks for volunteering for SCALE.
15:19:19 <pmyers> cctrieloff: can you send me link for the 'main ovirt preso' that I would use for FUDCON preso?
15:19:22 <rbergeron> honestly, the more people we have submit, the better - if we get 2 or 3 people able to talk about different things, at least if only one is accepted, then we can consolidate
15:19:39 <cctrieloff> let's do this, let's get list of people going added to the wiki with the planning for events
15:19:41 <rbergeron> quaid: I'm sure Ilan can probably accommodate that as well, I know he's looking for tracks in that area
15:19:44 <rbergeron> yeah.
15:19:51 <rbergeron> I'll add a wiki page for event planning.
15:19:57 <rbergeron> (unless there already is one)
15:19:59 <pmyers> cctrieloff: I should be on the wiki already for FudCon Blacksburg
15:20:01 <pmyers> rbergeron: there is
15:20:06 <rbergeron> DUDE, y'all rock
15:20:07 <quaid> pmyers: I think we need to work from and modify the posted one; probably a good users@ discussion to work that out :)
15:20:11 <rbergeron> man, i'm behind
15:20:11 <cctrieloff> yes.
15:20:12 <oschreib> quaid: ping
15:20:15 <pmyers> right
15:20:17 <quaid> oschreib: pong
15:20:21 <pmyers> what I want to know is 'where is the posted one'
15:20:32 <pmyers> I hate searching and I'm sure someone has the 'right link' to the 'right preso' :)
15:20:34 <quaid> #link http://www.ovirt.org/2011/11/01/workshop-underway-1-to-3-nov/
15:20:36 <rbergeron> #action quaid, pmyers to add to events wiki page
15:20:40 <cctrieloff> So we think we should plan a day track at FOSDEM. We should also plan a day track at KVM forum.
15:20:48 <quaid> pmyers: it's in that post currently
15:20:56 <pmyers> thx
15:20:59 <rbergeron> #info Should consider adding a day track at FOSDEM, KVM Forum
15:21:21 <pmyers> quaid: I don't see it
15:21:25 <quaid> I got a pile of presentations forwarded to me instead of loaded on to the wiki directly, so there is still a small bit of mess to sort out from those
15:21:27 <pmyers> i see presos specific to node, vdsm, reports, etc
15:21:31 <pmyers> but not a high level overview deck
15:21:34 <rbergeron> maybe a wiki page with "THIS IS THE LATEST VERSION OF THE STANDARD PRESO" or something like that would be useful.
15:21:39 <pmyers> rbergeron: +100
15:21:40 <quaid> pmyers: ha! how did that happen ...
15:21:56 <pmyers> I think we should have our 'main decks' on a very visible page
15:21:56 <quaid> there is not yet a standard preso, I think, but we're nearly three
15:22:00 <quaid> s/three/there/
15:22:01 <abaron_wfh> KVM forum should include a lot of oVirt presos
15:22:03 <pmyers> rather than buried in workshop pages
15:22:03 <rbergeron> pmyers: agreed
15:22:22 <quaid> ok, let's take the "fix up the presentations situation" off-meeting
15:22:24 <rbergeron> Okay, so, who has the ball on the "high level overview standard presentation" and getting it out and visible and whatnot
15:22:32 <rbergeron> quaid: do you want to drive that discussion onlist?
15:22:39 <pmyers> rbergeron: http://ovirt.org/wiki/Outreach
15:22:47 <quaid> ok, is everyone we need on users@?
15:22:59 <rbergeron> #action quaid to drive "The Standard Presentation" for oVirt and making it available onlist
15:23:07 <rbergeron> quaid: reject if you don't wnat that ball, i'm just trying to move along ;)
15:23:24 <rbergeron> quaid: I think we need to double check the overlap of project-planning and users@
15:23:24 <abaron_wfh> rbergeron: iheim should have such a preso available
15:23:38 <quaid> rbergeron: right
15:23:47 <cctrieloff> I can help on std preo, however I have PTO next week so I might not be the fastest one this time to do it
15:23:51 <quaid> rbergeron: I'll keep that action
15:23:59 <rbergeron> #info iheim may have such a presentation available
15:24:01 <rbergeron> Okay
15:24:06 * rbergeron is going to mooooooove onwards
15:24:23 <rbergeron> #topic Moving towards first release
15:24:23 <pmyers> rbergeron: I just added 'attending' column to http://ovirt.org/wiki/Outreach#Schedule
15:24:40 <rbergeron> cctrieloff: you mentioned earlier that you were still looking for agreement from SUSE & Canonical?
15:24:44 <rbergeron> On a release date?
15:24:50 <rbergeron> pmyers: you rock
15:25:30 <cctrieloff> agraf_: ^^ how is it coming?
15:25:34 <MarkBaker> rbergeron, I think we are owe a list of what we will do by when
15:25:58 <MarkBaker> rbergeron, cctrieloff in this case we = canonical
15:26:02 <rbergeron> MarkBaker: who is owing you? :)
15:26:16 <rbergeron> MarkBaker: ya
15:26:35 <cctrieloff> MarkBaker: thanks, do you have an idea of when is a reasonable time to pin the first release?
15:26:55 <MarkBaker> rbergeron, let me try that again: Canonical owes the project a list of what we will do by when
15:27:07 <rbergeron> ahhhhh
15:27:08 <rbergeron> I see
15:27:18 <cctrieloff> ack. any idea of reasonable date yet?
15:27:24 <rbergeron> I thought you meant you were owed a list of "what you'd have to do" to make an estimate
15:27:51 <MarkBaker> cctrieloff, we have plans to create n Ubnu based oVirt Node, port VDSM to Ubuntu Server and work on the client pieces
15:28:20 <cctrieloff> great, that would be a great first release.
15:28:57 <MarkBaker> Post UDS we are working out the resourcing for this and a whole raft of other stuff so I think it will be a few days before we can provide an estimte of when we will get this done.
15:28:59 <rbergeron> MarkBaker: maybe the thing to do would be to set up a wiki page that describes what your steps/plans are? and a timeline?
15:29:02 <pmyers> MarkBaker: will the Ubuntu based oVirt Node be just normal packaged Ubuntu w/ vdsm added?  Or are you also pursuing the black-box style Node that we have for Fedora?
15:29:31 <dannf> pmyers: i suspect it will be normally packaged, w/ that packaged version used for a black-box style node
15:29:33 <MarkBaker> FWIW we have meetings on Friday and Monday to finalise so should be able to give a mch better update next week
15:29:40 <pmyers> cctrieloff: quick note, back to idea of creating a track at FOSDEM.  Too late apparently to create tracks
15:29:52 <russellb> there is a 2-day general virt track though
15:30:02 <MarkBaker> pmyers, it will be a lightweight Ubuntu image in the style of the Fedora black box
15:30:10 <russellb> so you can propose talks for that, and you can propose talks for the lightning talks track
15:30:13 <pmyers> MarkBaker: ok sounds great
15:30:43 <rbergeron> #action Markbaker to finalise with an update next week; still in meetings/discussion for estimations
15:30:49 <rbergeron> MarkBaker: does that sound about right?
15:30:58 <MarkBaker> rbergeron, that is fine
15:31:01 <rbergeron> cool.
15:31:09 <cctrieloff> Maybe let me turn the question around. Do we think we can get a first release out before Christmas? Let's create a release page and see if we can get it in this year. Always good to work to a date.
15:31:21 <cctrieloff> we can finalize next week once we have all the data in.
15:31:31 <jimjag> +1
15:31:35 <rbergeron> Does anyone want to follow up with agraf_ ?
15:31:42 <russellb> one other fosdem nnote, you can also requeest a table for a project if you want, that's still open too
15:32:07 * rbergeron nods
15:32:18 <cctrieloff> rbergeron: are you able to request a table for us.
15:32:22 <rbergeron> cctrieloff: do you want to make a release page?
15:32:51 <rbergeron> cctrieloff: i can, but the likelihood of me *manning* the table is pretty low, unless someone wants to send me to europe and also bribe sdake into not strangling me :)
15:32:58 <cctrieloff> rbergeron: FOSDEM and let's mail the list with the deadline for presso's and get as many people to submit as possible
15:33:24 <cctrieloff> rbergeron: I'll find a way to send you :-) that is if you want to go...
15:33:49 <rbergeron> #action rbergeron to investigate table for FOSDEM, start figuring out deadlines for presetnations for various conferences
15:33:58 <rbergeron> okay, back to releases
15:33:59 <cctrieloff> rbergeron: cctrieloff: do you want to make a release page?  -- I think we should elect a release manager.
15:34:02 * rbergeron tries to keep the train on the tracks
15:34:18 * cdub agrees re: release manager
15:34:24 <rbergeron> hey, cdub :)
15:34:33 <cdub> hiya!
15:34:42 <cctrieloff> I think two actions from release:
15:34:53 * rbergeron nods
15:34:56 <cctrieloff> 1.) create a release page for working release
15:35:14 <cctrieloff> 2.) send mail to board and arch and to elect the release manager
15:35:33 <rbergeron> I think that's fair.
15:35:43 <agraf_> rbergeron: hrm?
15:35:46 * rbergeron looks for other thoughts / agreement
15:36:18 <agraf_> oh, up there
15:36:24 <rbergeron> agraf_: HAI ;) we were looking for feedback on SUSE & release schedule stf
15:36:26 <rbergeron> stuff
15:36:30 * rbergeron slaps around her keyboard
15:36:52 <pmyers> cctrieloff: release manager is global but for overall oVirt umbrella releases right?
15:36:53 <agraf_> rbergeron: heh, yeah, so we have the engine working and vdsm packaged and responding
15:36:57 <agraf_> rbergeron: can't create VMs yet though
15:37:02 <pmyers> each subproject still can release on own cadence and with own process?
15:37:07 <agraf_> rbergeron: and don't have all the infrastructure stuff up yet
15:37:14 <rbergeron> agraf_: yar, that's next in the agenda :)
15:37:29 <quaid> pmyers: +1 to those definitions, fwiw :)
15:37:29 <agraf_> rbergeron: I'd assume we need at least 2 weeks to get anything working together
15:37:49 <cctrieloff> pmyers: global: i.e. coordinate the release, i.e. decide when it is done, bug people for build projects etc / sign of for each distro etc etc
15:37:50 <mburns> maybe have one release person for each project, then they work together for overall release
15:37:56 <agraf_> rbergeron: but we're meeting in 20 minutes about ovirt after which i can tell you more details on what people think how long it'd take to get something opensuse based out
15:37:56 <pmyers> cctrieloff: +1
15:38:05 <pmyers> mburns: +1 as well
15:38:08 <rbergeron> ahhh
15:38:23 <pmyers> each subproject should have a named person responsible for coordinating w/ global release mgr
15:38:36 <rbergeron> features and a wrangler! ;)
15:38:44 <mburns> probably a backup/secondary person for global manager
15:39:30 <quaid> agraf_: are one or a few of you on infra@ovirt.org mailing list?
15:39:43 <agraf_> quaid: good question
15:40:01 <agraf_> quaid: I don't know tbh
15:40:02 <quaid> agraf_: would appreciate input on how we do e.g. the repo directories, and that's an open topic atm
15:40:10 <cctrieloff> let's take the release date to the list (and work the waht needs to be done and hopefully agree we get it out before christmas)
15:40:12 <rbergeron> okay, let's come to a conclusion here: Does someone wnant to write up a proposal to the list for release manager stuff, and how we think it should work, and hold it open for a day or two for comment before coming to a conclusion?
15:40:16 <rbergeron> And release date stuff as well?
15:40:40 <quaid> +1 to $someone
15:40:40 <rbergeron> cctrieloff: do you want to work the release date discussion? and maybe pmyers the release manager discussion?
15:40:43 <rbergeron> Or anyone?
15:40:44 <cctrieloff> and take the election of the global release manager to the list also, then each project can pick their coordinator.
15:40:50 * rbergeron looks for non-rht folks to volunteer
15:41:06 <rbergeron> just to spread the love:D
15:41:39 <rbergeron> anyone? :)
15:41:47 * rbergeron looks in her bag of cookies
15:41:48 <cctrieloff> someone that knows the code / impacts for the first one is fine, and then we rotate the position.
15:41:48 <pmyers> rbergeron: happy to start release mgr discussion unless someone else wants it
15:42:05 <bazulay> can you please elaborate a bit about the role of this global release manager ?
15:42:05 <cctrieloff> put it to the list so those not in teh meeting can also volenteer
15:42:13 <rbergeron> #action pmyers to start release manager discussion onlist
15:42:14 <pmyers> cctrieloff: +1
15:42:18 <pmyers> rbergeron: which list?
15:42:20 <pmyers> board?
15:42:25 <cctrieloff> arch
15:42:28 <pmyers> ack
15:42:39 <rbergeron> #action cctrieloff to take release date discussion to list (arch@ list, release manager discussion on arch@ list as well)
15:42:41 <cctrieloff> or arch and board is fine
15:42:42 * mdday_ will work off-line to see if someone from IBM can do this
15:42:44 <rbergeron> :D
15:42:57 <cctrieloff> mdday_: thanks
15:43:01 <bazulay> cctrieloff:  ^^ ?
15:43:12 <rbergeron> #action mdday_ to work off-line to see if someone from IBM can do this (release manager)
15:43:37 <rbergeron> okay, we have two more topics
15:43:48 <rbergeron> #topic Opening up mailing list(s) to non-subscriber posts
15:43:51 <rbergeron> Thoughts?
15:44:00 <quaid> um
15:44:02 <quaid> I replied on that topic
15:44:10 <quaid> just so folks are aware of the greater extent of the inbound spam
15:44:12 <rbergeron> quaid: yes, but carl added it as an agenda topic :)
15:44:18 <quaid> i.e. lots and growing
15:44:28 <pmyers> quaid: dor indicated qemu lists did not have spam issue
15:44:33 <quaid> rbergeron: sure, my reply was coincident, just referencing :)
15:44:35 <pmyers> why would we be worse off than that list?  :)
15:44:40 <quaid> pmyers: perhaps they have spam filters that work?
15:44:42 <rbergeron> quaid: maybe we need to do some blacklisting
15:44:46 <cctrieloff> What I have been doing on teh lists I moderate is if I get a real post, I auto-subscribe the person.
15:44:47 <pmyers> quaid: so let's get those filters :)
15:44:59 <quaid> cctrieloff: or add that person to the recipient filters
15:45:00 <pmyers> cctrieloff: that works fine as well
15:45:09 <rbergeron> I usually at least add it to the okay-to-post list.
15:45:14 <quaid> pmyers: we need someone to volunteer to make that happen :)
15:45:17 <cctrieloff> we are getting about ~30 spam messages a day already to the lists I moderate, so no keen on opening them up
15:45:27 <pmyers> ouch
15:45:29 <rbergeron> yeah, it's ugly
15:45:29 <quaid> i.e. -1 to open lists if it means I have to setup spam filters :)
15:45:30 <pmyers> didn't realize it was that bad
15:45:34 <sgordon> sure, but moderating them will get harder
15:45:38 <sgordon> so you need some filters
15:45:50 <quaid> how often do we get non-list people sending important messages?
15:45:51 <abaron_wfh> the best way I know of filtering spam is forwarding all email to gmail and then forward back from there and accepting only from the known gmail account :)
15:46:00 <pmyers> quaid: cross posts generate a lot of that
15:46:06 <cctrieloff> over time people will realize they need to subscribe
15:46:10 <pmyers> abaron_wfh: +1 :)
15:46:14 <quaid> pmyers: I agree with cctrieloff that people should be sub'd if they want to discuss
15:46:19 <sgordon> they will, but there is always some
15:46:19 <quaid> so they can see the replies
15:46:20 <cctrieloff> that is what I've seen with the ASF lists I moderate
15:46:25 <sgordon> or someone has a one off request for say infra
15:46:29 <sgordon> and doesnt want to subscribe
15:46:34 <itamar> quaid - the first email by any person is before they register. like carl, i auto approve them for future emails even if they don't subscribe
15:46:44 <quaid> sgordon: that's what the moderator queue is for
15:46:53 <cctrieloff> In 6 months time, we can turn the lists to auto reject and stop moderating
15:47:02 <itamar> they don't have to subscribe, just need moderator to ack them as senders for their first email
15:47:03 <sgordon> quaid, yes but i was responding to the comment that over time people learn to subscribe
15:47:09 <quaid> sgordon: and people should know that lists tend NOT to accept non-subscribers posts, anyway, so relying upon moderators is a fool's quest
15:47:17 <sgordon> quaid, they should but they dont
15:47:26 <sgordon> we still get mails on fedora-docs from people who are unsubbed
15:47:34 <sgordon> and it's been around for how many years?
15:47:37 * rbergeron nods
15:47:45 <quaid> well, in today's world, we can't spend all our time moderating for the few who refuse to subscribe to their own discussions.
15:47:45 <rbergeron> same for cloud list @ fp.o
15:47:52 <sgordon> quaid, again that is why you need filters
15:47:55 <sgordon> and then just open it
15:48:08 <quaid> sgordon: so you are volunteering for that? :)
15:48:18 <rbergeron> okay, why don't we do this: get filters (need volunteer), give it a trial run, and if it's too much spam, turn it off?
15:48:22 <sgordon> i believe someone else suggested it ;)
15:48:24 <quaid> I'm concerned that our infra is already pretty streteched
15:48:45 <quaid> not that we don't have enough hands (we don't, but that's not the problem), it's that we need a few more weeks of getting organized
15:48:47 <sgordon> well who is adminning the mailman instance?
15:49:00 <quaid> me
15:49:02 <oschreib> me
15:49:02 <abaron_wfh> what's the big deal with moderator automatically subscribing anyone who sends a valid email and is not subd?
15:49:02 <quaid> and now oschreib
15:49:15 <quaid> abaron_wfh: +1 or just add to recipient filter
15:49:18 <cctrieloff> abaron_wfh: that is what I do
15:49:27 <rbergeron> abaron_wfh: that you have to filter through every spam mail to see if it's kosher.... is sometimes painful
15:49:40 <quaid> sgordon: but we just added oschreib, he and I haven't worked together before, so we're figuring out all the details still on infra@
15:49:52 <quaid> so if the consensus is what rbergeron suggested, we need a few weeks to get to that
15:49:56 <rbergeron> by painful i mean, "need to keep on top of it, and god forbid if you go on vacation"
15:49:58 <abaron_wfh> rbergeron: this did not come from the moderators, they haven't complained yet.
15:50:01 <cctrieloff> rbergeron: abaron_wfh: I don't spam comes in batches, so anything in bacthes I toss.
15:50:07 <sgordon> abaron_wfh, yet ;)
15:50:22 <abaron_wfh> sgordon: I'm a moderator
15:50:29 <rbergeron> it's usually not the moderators that complain, it's the one person whose mail didn't get seen/passed through :)
15:51:00 <cctrieloff> we can also just add a few more moderators if people want to volenteer. and then track and see how it goes.
15:51:12 <abaron_wfh> cctrieloff: +1
15:51:17 <pmyers> cctrieloff: +1 from me as well
15:51:18 <rbergeron> i think that sounds reasonable
15:51:40 <rbergeron> #agreed add more moderators to help spread the load of approving mails nd see how it goes
15:51:59 <rbergeron> quaid: do you want to spam (haha) the lists to see if anyone wnats to volunteer as a moderator?
15:52:08 <rbergeron> or sgordon?
15:52:09 <quaid> #action Infra team will continue to study spam filter solutions
15:52:19 <quaid> +1 to sgordon
15:52:21 <sgordon> sure i am happy to do that
15:52:23 <quaid> people are tired of seeing my email
15:52:33 <sgordon> which list, board?
15:52:43 <rbergeron> #actoin sgordon to ask lists for additional moderation volunteers
15:52:45 <quaid> arch@ at least
15:52:50 * mestery doesn't think anyone is tired of seeing email from quaid.
15:52:55 <quaid> that's the cross-project discussion list
15:53:06 <rbergeron> #action sgordon to ask lists for additional moderation volunteers (to arch@ list)
15:53:15 <quaid> mestery: yeah, but if I'm always asking for stuff, people learn to leave my emails to read until later :)
15:53:22 <rbergeron> Okay, moving on!
15:53:42 <rbergeron> #topic FTP / Repo Setup status
15:53:48 <rbergeron> I think this is the last agenda item
15:53:51 <abaron_wfh> rbergeron: I'm willing to moderate arch
15:54:12 <rbergeron> abaron_wfh: can you get with quaid on that? :)
15:54:28 <rbergeron> cctrieloff: do you have any comments re: ftp/repo setup status
15:54:35 <cctrieloff> do we have general agreement on the proposal from quaid on FTP setup?
15:54:41 <quaid> nearly I think
15:54:44 <quaid> the setup is just a few minutes
15:54:48 <quaid> but I wanted to get the details right
15:55:00 <quaid> cctrieloff: I'd like to hear from different distros, though
15:55:26 <quaid> #action quaid to ask someone from SUSE and Canonical to comment about the repo setup details
15:55:33 <cctrieloff> I think calling it repo and the add dir for repo/nightly repo/release etc etc
15:55:40 <pmyers> cctrieloff: not repo
15:55:46 <pmyers> repo is specific to format of packages
15:55:54 <quaid> agraf_: MarkBaker dannf : http://lists.ovirt.org/pipermail/infra/2011-November/000096.html
15:55:54 <pmyers> mburns had suggestion for alternate name
15:56:00 * mburns said release
15:56:01 <pmyers> but otherwise +1 to quaid's plan
15:56:04 <cctrieloff> agraf_: MarkBaker: ^^
15:56:13 <quaid> how about releases/repo/foo
15:56:16 <pmyers> quaid: +1
15:56:17 <mburns> so releases/nightly
15:56:22 <mburns> releases/<version>?
15:56:25 <quaid> so in releases/ is repo/ and version/ and nightly/ etc.
15:56:34 <sgordon> repo should be further down
15:56:44 <sgordon> as the type of repo likely depends on distribution
15:56:53 * rbergeron notes that she has to step away for about 3 minutes, if someone wants ot handle actioning and agreeing and so forth
15:56:56 <quaid> ok, so we DON'T have consensus :)
15:57:08 <sgordon> well we have consensus on top level i think
15:57:11 <sgordon> releases/
15:57:14 <quaid> sgordon: right, so what is the structure that is generic at the top, then customizable as you get in to it?
15:57:15 <sgordon> releases/nightly
15:57:18 <sgordon> yeah
15:57:21 <cctrieloff> are we able to get consensus on IRC now..
15:57:24 <quaid> sgordon: +1 agreed, consensus on that
15:57:32 <sgordon> so it might for example end up being releases/1.0/fedora/
15:57:35 <sgordon> just for example
15:57:39 <sgordon> but we can flesh that out later
15:57:48 <pmyers> +1
15:57:49 <quaid> so let's drop the repo word
15:57:55 <sgordon> /releases and /releases/nightly would get us started
15:57:56 <quaid> it's not needed,it's just a yum convention
15:58:19 <quaid> ok, so I think we're back to what mburns suggested
15:58:22 <dannf> we still need to iron out internally, but i suspect canonical will use a ppa in launchpad
15:58:23 <MarkBaker> so we definitely need another repo for Ubuntu pieces
15:58:24 <dannf> so we just need links
15:58:34 <pmyers> dannf: yep
15:58:57 <sgordon> do we have anyone from SuSE handy?
15:59:04 <quaid> dannf: ok, but it would be good to have something there in case people are going through the directory tree; maybe at the minimum README.Ubuntu
15:59:28 <quaid> rbergeron: I'll take the chair of the meeting from here
15:59:30 <cctrieloff> agraf_: any feedback on FTP structure for SUSE
15:59:53 <quaid> ok, i can finish up with him after the meeting
16:00:00 <quaid> we are nearly agreed :)
16:00:03 <dannf> yeah, a readme sounds reasonable
16:00:10 <smoser> quaid, README.ubuntu makes sense.
16:01:08 <quaid> ok, I still have the action to follow-up with agraf_ et al, so will do so today soonest
16:01:22 <quaid> then we'll get the directory and yum repo done by COB my time
16:01:36 <quaid> anything else on this topic for now?
16:01:45 <quaid> otherwise, the thread is still open on list for the moment.
16:02:01 * rbergeron returns
16:02:21 <quaid> and if that's it, we're about to be done
16:02:35 <rbergeron> awesome, i'm just in time
16:02:36 <rbergeron> LOL
16:02:38 <quaid> #topic Final closing bits ...
16:02:46 <quaid> anyone have anything final before we close the meeting?
16:03:24 <cctrieloff> looks like we are done
16:03:31 <pmyers> I'm good
16:03:37 <rbergeron> Thanks everyone for coming :)
16:03:40 <jimjag> nothing here
16:03:48 * rbergeron will ship out meeting logs
16:04:04 <rbergeron> and ...
16:04:05 <rbergeron> 3...
16:04:07 <rbergeron> 2...
16:04:13 * rbergeron eats a slice of delicious bacon
16:04:16 <rbergeron> ....1.
16:04:16 <ovirtbot> rbergeron: Error: "...1." is not a valid command.
16:04:22 <rbergeron> OH, NOW.
16:04:27 <rbergeron> #endmeeting